To agree the minutes of the previous meeting
as a true and accurate record of proceedings.
The minutes of the previous meeting were
agreed as a true and accurate record of proceedings.
Declarations of Interest
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Members present are required to declare, at this point in the
soon as possible thereafter:
i.any disclosable pecuniary interests and /
ii.other interests arising under the Code of Conduct in
respect of any item(s) of business being considered at this
·Members are reminded that they must not participate
in any item where they have a disclosable pecuniary
·as well as an interest of the Member, this includes
any interest, of which the Member is aware, that relates to the
Member’s spouse or civil partner (or any person with whom the
Member is living as a spouse or civil partner); and
·Members with a significant personal interest may
participate in the discussion and vote on that matter unless that
interest could be reasonably regarded as prejudicial.
Chris Botten declared an interest as the
Chairman of the Council of Governors of Hurst Green Infant and
Kay Hammond declared an interest as Chair of
the Interim Executive Board of Chart Wood School.
Questions & Petitions
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To receive any questions or petitions
1.The deadline for Member’s questions is 12.00pm
four working days before the meeting (9 November
2.The deadline for public questions is seven days
before the meeting (8 November 2018).
3.The deadline for petitions was 14 days before the
meeting, and no petitions have been received.
There were no questions or petitions
Response from the Cabinet to Issues Referred by the Select Committee
Witnesses: Mark Barratt,
Director of Quality Assurance
Clare Curran, Cabinet Member for Children
points raised in the discussion:
Officers explained that the report outlined
performance in Children’s Services in Surrey. It was
highlighted that there was now a robust usage of performance data,
and that this was as a result of a modified system which enabled
clear data entry and recollection. It was also noted that usage of
this had changed and that it was used to challenge behaviour on
both a strategic level to an operational level.
Officers recognised that there had been significant
challenges regarding data quality. It was stressed that the service
was looking to address key areas of vulnerability and ensure that
data is inputted in a single and streamlined way, explaining that
systems were changing to make this possible.
Robert Evans entered the meeting at
Members questioned what work was being undertaken to
reduce indicators rated as high risk, highlighting those high risk
indicators that were on a downwards trajectory, and questioned
whether the service was taking priority action to address these.
Officers stressed that there was a plan of activity to rectify
indicators which were on a downwards trend, and noted that with an
understanding of the data, there was an opportunity to understand
the underlying root cause of key issues were.
The Cabinet Member for Children stressed that there
was rapid improvement work underway and that the implementation of
the Transformation Business Cases that were approved by Council
were critical to the improvement of the service. The Cabinet Member
noted that the acceptance of the high risk indicators demonstrated
that the service was aware of its deficiencies and need to improve.
It was explained that improvement was underway, but that there was
significant work needed to ensure that this improvement was
embedded within the service.
Officers noted that the remodel the management tier
of services had provided organisational clarity and that this was
improving accountability and ownership of performance within the
service. It was noted that this was part of the change of culture
in performance management within the service.
Members noted that they appreciated the improved
evidence of performance monitoring and noted that they would like
to see evidence of continued and regular performance monitoring
presented to the Committee and that any indicators that had a
consistent downward trend should be highlighted to the
Members questioned whether there would be any
projected impact on reductions in spend in the service,
particularly the proposals to reduce the number of Children’s
Centres in the County, and how the service planned to mitigate
this. The Cabinet Member stressed that this should be viewed as
part of the wider transformation programme and there would be more
resource put into early intervention, which should improve
performance measures in the long term, due to the targeted nature
of earlier intervention and concentration of resource. The Cabinet
Member emphasised that it was not the intent to remove services
that residents depended on, but that it would ...
view the full minutes text for item 16.
Purpose of the Report:To outline the current Surrey Alternative Learning
Provision (SALP) offer and how it is utilised by Surrey County
Council and partners, with a particular focus on our work in
reducing exclusions, to provide context of this vulnerable group
and the range of services offered, including coverage of provision,
length of time children utilise them for and whether the provision
is being used to best improve children’s outcomes.
Mary Burguieres,Continuous Improvement &
Change Strategic Lead
Anne Halliday, Assistant Head Teacher
(Inclusion) Paul Jackson,Headteacherof North West Surrey Short Stay School
Sarah Stokes, Head Teacher of
Mark Heath, Principle Lead for Inclusion
Mary Lewis, Cabinet Member for All Age Learning
points raised in the discussion:
Officers explained that the service worked with some
of the most vulnerable children in the County. It was also noted
that issues facing schools regarding permanent exclusions were
under intense scrutiny in national and local government and that
this issue was timely and linked to reviews undertaken elsewhere.
It was also noted that the Surrey High Sherriff had undertaken
significant work on this issue and that this had helped analyse the
effect that permanent exclusion had on the child.
Members questioned the inspection and regulation of
alternative education provision providers. The Headteacher noted that Short Stay Schools are
inspected under the same regulatory framework and inspection rules
as mainstream schools. It was stressed that there was a need to
demonstrate progress with students, and that Ofsted did not only
focus on results, as would be more the case in a mainstream school,
and considered the progress of children to determine
Officers noted that children in alternative
provision were monitored by both the school that commissioned the
alternative provision and by the local authority to ensure that
their outcomes were monitored.
Officers noted that frameworks were in place to
determine how network funding could be utilised to commission
alternative education provision. It was noted, however, that this
framework was designed in 2011 and was in need of
Members questioned how Short Stay Schools measured
the progress of children. The Head of the Short Stay School noted
that exam results were a difficult quantative analysis to utilise for children in
alternative provision, due to the different levels of qualification
and behavioural models of children in this environment. It was
explained that progress was measured in terms of behavioural
improvements and other non-attainment based measures. The Head of
the Mainstream School noted that there was a need to monitor a
child’s outcome and work closely with the Short Stay School
to ensure improvement.
Members noted that, as a result of increases in
numbers of children with behaviour issues, there was a potential
for more exclusions from mainstream school. Members questioned
whether there was enough provision available to help support these
children, capacity to take the demand, and if anything was being
undertaken to reduce demand. Officers noted that the plans for SEND
Transformation included the option to increase capacity of
specialist places by approximately 350. It was stressed however,
that there was a risk in increasing numbers of Short Stay School
places, noting that increased numbers could potentially encourage
greater utilisation of these places.
Officers stressed that they would be working with
schools and Special Educational Needs Co-Ordinators (SENCOs) in
schools to help improve the capability of schools to be inclusive
Witnesses: David John, Audit
Richard Abigail, Senior Auditor
Carol Douch, Head of Countywide Services
points raised in the discussion:
Internal Audit Officers explained that they had been
invited by the service to review their
performance in delivering Initial Health Assessments (IHA) within
statutory timescales in order to help
in their performance improvement process. It was explained that
this work had been undertaken during Spring 2018.
Internal Audit Officers noted that statutory
timescales had not been met with regard to Initial Health
Assessments and that audit could only provide Minimal Assurance. It
was noted that four key stages were observed:
Collection of form of consent and referral to
Date provider offers an appointment
Date of the appointment
Return of report to Children’s
Officers noted that there were delays to all of
It was noted that a follow up audit was scheduled
for next year to monitor implementation of the agreed Management Action Plan.
Officers noted that the Children, Families and
Learning Directorate accepted the audit assessment of Minimal
Members questioned datasets and noted that there had
been a reduction of assessments not completed on time and queried
how the service had undertaken this. Officers noted that there had
been significantly more senior officer oversight of this process in
order to drive practice improvement which had led to changes in
Surrey County Council’s improvement. It was also noted that
senior leaders were in regular weekly contact with the provider to
ensure that practice improvement is holistic, which had also led to
improvements since this audit was initially conducted.
The Cabinet Member for Children noted that there had
been longstanding evidence of poor performance in delivery of
Initial Health Assessments within statutory timescales. It was
explained that this issue was part of the systemic problems within
the service that the improvement and transformation of the service
was looking to improve upon.
Officers noted that there had been work undertaken
to look at alternative models of delivering this service and best
practice across other local authorities. It was stressed that
alternative contract models were being looked at to ensure that the
service delivered in the best way.
Internal Audit Officers noted that, in the case of a
high priority agreed action , audit would monitor progress to
ensure that it has been successfully delivered. Audit noted that it
would be expecting to conduct its follow up in quarter one of
2019/20 and that the results of this would be circulated to the
Committee upon its conclusion.
Internal Audit Officers noted that they had good
working relations with Children, Families and Learning and that the
new Directors were receptive to change and that audit was
undertaking reviews of other areas of change within the
Members noted that they were
encouraged by evidence of improvement. It was recommended
The Committee receive an update from internal audit
on the completion of the follow-up audit in 2019 to assure itself
that progress has been made on the Management ...
view the full minutes text for item 18.
Purpose of the Report:To provide the Committee information regarding the
work of the joint Task and Finish Group, ask the Committee to note
the results of the group and to make recommendations as
The Vice-Chairman noted the conclusion report of the
SEND Task and Finish Group and stressed to the Committee that
future work would be undertaken in subsequent Task and Finish
Groups and in items that will be submitted to the Committee in the
It was noted that there was a consultation underway
regarding SEND which was underway as of the meeting of the
That the Committee noted the
work of the Task and Finish Group and noted that future work would
be undertaken on SEND Transformation in Spring 2019.