Agenda and minutes

Surrey Police and Crime Panel
Tuesday, 29 September 2015 10.30 am

Venue: Ashcombe Suite, County Hall, Kingston upon Thames, Surrey KT1 2DN. View directions

Contact: Victoria White or Joseph Jones 

Webcast: View the webcast

Items
No. Item

19/15

APOLOGIES FOR ABSENCE

20/15

MINUTES OF THE PREVIOUS MEETING pdf icon PDF 164 KB

21/15

DECLARATIONS OF INTEREST

22/15

PUBLIC QUESTIONS

    To receive any public questions.

     

    Note:

    Written questions from the public can be submitted no later than seven days prior to the published date of the annual or any ordinary public meeting, for which the Commissioner will be invited to provide a written response by noon on the day before the meeting, which will be circulated to Panel Members and the questioner.

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    There was one public question at the meeting with a prepared response to the Police & Crime Commissioner.

     

    Question received from Mr Gabriel Webber, on 21 September 2015

     

    Dear Panel

     

    I would like to table the following written question for the PCC at your Panel meeting on the 29th:

     

    Does the Commissioner feel it is appropriate to have a sitting Councillor, Shiraz Mirza, on his team given that the Local Government and Housing Act 1989 prohibits sitting Councillors from working for PCCs; and what assessment has he made of the legality of his way of circumventing this statutory provision by way of a front company, Surrey Partnership Ltd.?

     

    Please could you acknowledge receipt:

     

    Best wishes

    Gabriel

     

    Answer received from Police and Crime Commissioner, on 28 September 2015

     

    Mr Webber has recently submitted a similar question to my office under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act and I refer members to my response, attached.   

    Mr Mirza is not and has never been employed by the Office of the PCC. Instead, I entirely appropriately chose to enter into a contract with Mr Mirza’s company, Surrey Partnership Ltd, to access the wealth of experience that Mr Mirza can uniquely provide.   

    In addition to his role as a councillor, Mr Mirza has a long and varied history of community work and has enjoyed working with people from many different walks of life, cultures and religions.  It is through Mr Mirza that I am able to engage with communities that would otherwise be ‘harder to reach’ and to obtain advice from a perspective I might not normally hear.    

    The issue of the contract with Surrey Partnership Ltd was raised by Members at the Panel meeting held on 6th February 2014 and I fully explained the situation.  Furthermore, Members will be aware that they have kept the role and responsibilities of Mr Mirza under review at every Panel meeting since his appointment.  As further assurance for Members, Mr Mirza’s position has, as Mr Webber points out in his FOI request, been reviewed by the PCC and Chief Constable’s Audit Committee.   

    Regards 

    Kevin

    Kevin Hurley – Police and Crime Commissioner.

     

     

    RECOMMENDATIONS:

     

                None.

     

    ACTIONS/FURTHER INFORMATION TO BE PROVIDED:

     

                None.

     

    PANEL NEXT STEPS:

     

                None.

23/15

RECOMMENDATIONS TRACKER AND FORWARD WORK PROGRAMME pdf icon PDF 99 KB

    To review the Recommendations Tracker and Forward Work Programme.

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Key points raised during the discussions:

     

    ·         There was discussion on the cadet force and its interest on its progression. The Deputy Police and Crime Commissioner stated that a report will be released in due course and that a Volunteer Coordinator was being appointed.

     

    ·         The Panel agreed the Recommendations Tracker and Forward Work Programme.

     

     

    RECOMMENDATIONS:

     

                None.

     

    ACTIONS/FURTHER INFORMATION TO BE PROVIDED:

     

                None.

     

    PANEL NEXT STEPS:

     

                None.

     

24/15

COMPLAINTS RECEIVED SINCE THE LAST MEETING pdf icon PDF 66 KB

    To note complaints against the Police and Crime Commissioner and the Deputy Police and Crime Commissioner received since the last meeting of the Police and Crime Panel.

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Key points raised during the discussions:

     

    ·         There was one complaint discussed on the 23 September 2015 at the Surrey Police & Crime Panel Complaints Sub-Committee. The Chairman noted that the outcome would be reported at the next Panel meeting.

     

    RECOMMENDATIONS:

     

                None.

     

    ACTIONS/FURTHER INFORMATION TO BE PROVIDED:

     

    None.

     

     

    PANEL NEXT STEPS:

     

                None.

25/15

JOINT ENFORCEMENT TEAMS pdf icon PDF 266 KB

     

    To update the Police and Crime Panel on the evaluation carried out on Joint Enforcement Teams (JETs) and to ask for support in rolling out future JETs.

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Key points raised during the discussions:

     

    ·         The Chairman asked Panel members how the other districts are operating regarding the Joint Enforcement Team (JET). In Spelthorne, a member noted that the JET, which is operating in both Reigate and Spelthorne is going well however when complaints are made regarding parking, the Police say that it is the Council’s responsibility, not the Police. It was noted by a Panel member that Runnymede is putting in place resources for collaboration Joint Enforcement Team. It was commented that Elmbridge is progressing and is committed to the collaboration scheme however it is not on as ambitious a scale as the Reigate and Spelthorne collaboration.

     

    ·         An issue of the work patterns of the council’s officers was raised and Panel members suggested consulting staff on the work practices with full cooperation of staff and the weekend working issue.

     

    ·         The Police & Crime Commissioner (PCC) appreciated the feedback and the work carried out and the PCC suggested collective action regarding the issue of weekend work. The PCC also argued that the consequences of the council having legal power is that the Police are powerless regarding the issue of parking on double yellow lines and Blue Badge fraud. The PCC recommended that the Police should have more powers from the council regarding the issues stated. The PCC stated that he will be meeting with Councillor Fury regarding designating powers to Police officers.

     

     

    RECOMMENDATIONS:

     

    1.    The Chairman recommended that Panel members should discuss the experiences they have outside the meeting.

     

    ACTIONS/FURTHER INFORMATION TO BE PROVIDED:

     

                None.

     

    PANEL NEXT STEPS:

     

                None.

     

    [Peter Waddell joined the meeting at 10.10 am]

26/15

PEEL ASSESSMENT UPDATE pdf icon PDF 71 KB

    The purpose of this report is to update the Police and Crime Panel on the PEEL assessment process 2015/16.

     

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Key points raised during the discussions:

     

    ·         The PCC explained that there were two separate studies on Surrey Police and they are awaiting the outcome of one. A further report will be given to the Panel in early 2016.

     

    RECOMMENDATIONS:

     

                None.

     

    ACTIONS/FURTHER INFORMATION TO BE PROVIDED:

     

                None.

     

    PANEL NEXT STEPS:

     

                None.

     

27/15

POLICE ESTATES UPDATE pdf icon PDF 53 KB

    The Police and Crime Panel has requested an update on police estates in Surrey to include the amount of police estate that has been sold and the associated data.

     

    The attached report provides the requested update on estates for the panel’s information.

     

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Key points raised during the discussions:

     

    ·         There was discussion regarding the Surrey Police capital proceeds and spending, as well Police housing in Surrey and the cost of living for Police officers in Surrey. The PCC noted that they can keep 100 per cent of the proceeds of the sale of the estate and that the houses sold were not sold to local authorities or listed on the open market until they had been offered to police officers or staff at market rate. Further to this, the PCP noted that the Capital Grant has been reduced and that the money generated from selling Police houses was used to fund the Capital Programme.

     

    ·         The PCC noted that any additional capital cannot be used for revenue although the Force does lease its houses to generate revenue.

     

    RECOMMENDATIONS:

     

                None.

     

    ACTIONS/FURTHER INFORMATION TO BE PROVIDED:

     

                None.

     

    PANEL NEXT STEPS:

     

                None.

     

28/15

DEPUTY AND ASSISTANT POLICE AND CRIME COMMISSIONERS' OBJECTIVES AND PERFORMANCE REVIEW pdf icon PDF 100 KB

    The report sets out details of the work that Jeff Harris, Shiraz Mirza and Jane Anderson have been undertaking and the outcomes they have achieved since the meeting of the Police and Crime Panel on 9 June 2015.

     

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Key points raised during the discussions:

     

    ·         There was praise for the work that Jane Anderson had done in being a positive advocate with working with victims of rape and domestic violence and the Panel was grateful for her work. There was also praise for Shiraz Mirza and the work he had done around some of the harder to reach communities. The PCC publicly thanked them both for the work they have done. There was a comment by a Panel member that the objectives and aims need to be tighter and more measurable to make sure they can see the outcomes better.

     

    ·         There was further praise by the Panel for the work that the Youth Worker in Woking has been involved in as well as working in collaboration with Mr Mirza. It was commented that the Youth Worker is staying on with the role. The Chairman praised the Youth Worker and stated that she intends to visit to meet the team and the Youth Worker.

     

    ·         The Panel Member for Mole Valley praised the work of the Deputy Commissioner on the Elmer Foundation, stating that his advice and support was valued.

     

    ·         The Panel suggested making the objectives tighter in order to measure business related outcomes.

     

    RECOMMENDATIONS:

     

                None.

     

    ACTIONS/ FURTHER INFORMATION TO BE RPOVIDED:

     

    1.    There was discussion regarding going forward but to make objectives tighter in measure of business related outcomes and the PCC will reflect the feedback discussed.

     

    PANEL NEXT STEPS:

     

                None.

29/15

POLICE AND CRIME PLAN QUARTERLY UPDATE pdf icon PDF 73 KB

    The Police and Crime Panel for Surrey scrutinises the work of the Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC) for Surrey, Kevin Hurley, overseeing progress against the published Police and Crime Plan.

     

    In March 2015 the PCC reviewed and updated the Police and Crime Plan to put additional focus on:

     

    ·                     Improving funding for Surrey Police

    ·                     Joint Enforcement and Joint Working

    ·                     Embedding victim services and developing support for children

    ·                     Roads Policing

    ·                     Counter Terrorism

     

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Key points raised during the discussions:

     

    ·         The PCC noted that burglary is down by 40% in the past two years.

     

    ·         A Panel member raised concern regarding in relative terms of Surrey’s position in the national table as a safe place to live, as the low detection rates and resolution rates were close to the bottom of the league table. The PCC responded that this was being tackled and would be discussed later in the meeting.

     

    ·         The Chairman also raised the concern of the lack of young detectives being trained by the force. The Chairman would like to discuss this fully in the future. The PCC replied that Surrey Police have had the problem of inexperienced detectives and so were recruiting retired detectives. The PCC emphasised that due to restricted budgets, they are having problems with recruiting new, younger detectives.

     

    ·         A Panel member raised the point of ambition to achieve targets in what Surrey Police want to do. The PCC agreed with the Panel member’s statement regarding ambition; however he noted that the force does not want to set specific targets or goals. The PCC added this that if the Police had targets to pursue, this could lead to preserve incentives to pursue particular areas. The PCC explained that the Police should be given autonomy to make decisions and take actions that they think are right.

     

    ·         A Panel member argued that a zero-tolerance approach should be adopted across the force for more minor crimes; otherwise criminals will have carte-blanche to engage in them.

     

    The Vice-Chairman asked the PCC for his view regarding the Police body cameras and the PCC noted his support for body cameras. He outlined that they are effective in increasing detection rates as well as moderating the intentions and actions of Police Officers. The PCC noted that he is keen to introduce body cameras as soon as possible.

     

    ·         In response to queries about what has brought about the increase in detection rates, the PCC explained that the new Deputy Chief Constable had brought about a review of how detection has been operating and introduced a new performance regime. This business approach to dealing with crime is proving successful.

     

    ·         The PCC also noted that due to budget cuts and the number of staff in the force decreasing, the officers have to do more work with less resource which is affecting their ability to participate in their neighbourhoods. There is an issue with the demographic makeup of some areas that have Neighbourhood Watch schemes, as they tend to use less technology, such as social media, to raise awareness. In these areas word of mouth is an important means of communication.

     

    ·         There was also concern from Panel members regarding Anti-Social Behaviour being ignored by Police Officers as well as poor performances for resolving crime where the suspect is known.

     

    ·         The Panel expressed concern regarding services on the county border and which services where called out to the county border because of the confusion regarding cross charges between services.  

     

    ·         Further to this,  ...  view the full minutes text for item 29/15

30/15

BUDGET QUARTERLY UPDATE pdf icon PDF 292 KB

    To consider the budget update of Surrey Police and the Office of the Surrey Police and Crime Commissioner.

     

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Key points raised during the discussions:

     

    ·         It was stated that was included page 81 that there were goods and services noted from the previous financial year. It was also confirmed that the Capital Income Surplus schemes were approved.

     

    ·         Regarding the Community Safety Fund, the PCC stated that much more has been spent with the full fund expected to be allocated by the end of the year. The PCC stated that the force will communicate to officers on how to bid for the money. The Treasurer and Chief Finance Officer stated that there is more money being spent than was committed to spend however spending will decrease as the year continues.

     

    ·         The Joint Investment Board for Surrey and Sussex manage separate allocations for Surrey and for Sussex, but in light of collaboration also consider schemes that involve both Surrey and Sussex.

     

    ·         The Chairman asked whether money from Surrey was being spent in Sussex, and the Treasurer and the Chief Finance Officer confirmed that this was not the case.

     

    RECOMMENDATIONS:

     

    None.

     

    ACTIONS/FURTHER INFORMATION TO BE PROVIDED:

     

                None.

     

    PANEL NEXT STEPS:

     

                None.

     

     

31/15

BUDGET END OF YEAR UPDATE pdf icon PDF 298 KB

32/15

OFFICE OF THE POLICE AND CRIME COMMISSIONER 2014/15 FINANCIAL STATEMENTS pdf icon PDF 292 KB

    This report contains the 2014/15 Financial Statements for the Surrey Police Group (i.e. the accounts for the Police & Crime Commissioner and the Chief Constable).  These are draft statements as the External Auditor (Grant Thornton) has yet to issue his formal opinion on the Financial Statements.  The statutory date by which the External Auditor must issue his opinion is the 30th September 2015. 

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Key points raised during the discussions:

     

    ·         A Panel member raised a question regarding what the Joint Audit Committee was as well as who serves on the Joint Audit Committee and how are they elected. The PCC responded that the Committee is an independent body that consists of five expert appointees and their role is to scrutinise the way in which the accounts are prepared by both the PCC office and for the Chief Constable to provide assurances to the PCC and Chief Constable in respect of their internal control measures.

     

    ·         There was discussion regarding the audit report as well as a discussion regarding the financial savings for Surrey Police as a result of collaboration and what future areas of collaboration are Surrey Police investing in.

     

    ·         In response to the question asked over the savings as a result of collaboration, the PCC agreed to bring forward the figures to the next Panel meeting. The PCC also noted that there is collaboration on terrorism, regional and major crime as well as national uniform procurement. The PCC noted that Surrey Police were looking into collaboration with Thames Valley and Hampshire in IT. The PCC also expressed interest for the Policing Minister in Surrey to be part of a pilot scheme for the Police and Fire Service collaboration.

     

    ·         The Treasurer and Chief Finance Officer noted that the internal auditors rarely gave ‘full assurance’ and the Audit Committee considers all reports. All high priority recommendations would be dealt with and reported to the Audit Committee.

     

    ·         A Panel member noted that the pension scheme is unfunded and that there are no assets to back it up. The response from the Treasurer and Chief Finance Officer was that it was paid out of contributions determined by government actuary. Further to this, the Officer noted it was a liability on the government balance sheet, and not for Surrey to worry about.

     

    ·         The report was accepted by the Panel.

     

    RECOMMENDATIONS:

     

                None.

     

    ACTIONS/FURTHER INFORMATION TO BE PROVIDED:

     

    1.    That the OPCC provide the Panel with detail of savings made by Surrey as a result of collaboration.

     

     

    PANEL NEXT STEPS:

     

                None.

     

     

33/15

FEEDBACK ON MANAGEMENT MEETINGS BETWEEN THE POLICE AND CRIME COMMISSIONER AND CHIEF CONSTABLE pdf icon PDF 220 KB

    The Police and Crime Commissioner for Surrey, Kevin Hurley, holds bimonthly management meetings with the Chief Constable, Lynne Owens and appropriate members of her senior team.

     

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Key points raised during the discussions:

     

    ·         There was discussion regarding the intelligence gaps with reference to the management meeting in July 2015. The PCC noted that it is up to the Police to now look at mechanisms to improve that gap or provide useful intelligence to go after drug dealers.

     

    ·         The PCC stated that there was underspend on page 182 of the report which links to the fact that the force needs to downsize. The PCC noted that the Police body cameras would cost £1.5 million for the hardware and subsequent software of the cameras and the camera system. The PCC also stated that £1 million extra was going into training and £2 million extra was going into improving public protection.

     

    ·         A Panel member asked what the expenditure is used for with the PCC answering that certain civilian posts will not be recruited to and that any surplus of money left over will not be used.

     

    ·         The topic of Police morale was also discussed in terms of how to address the issue of low morale in the Police force. The PCC stated that Police morale is poor, aspects such as low pension, frozen pay, as well as officers being physically and emotionally drained, all contributed to the low morale. The negative image of the Police by the mainstream media and politicians had also contributed to the low morale. Subsequently, this had led to officers leaving or transferring to other forces, according to the PCC.

     

    The PCC noted the officers were also attracted to and approached by private employers. Regarding the issues facing the Police force, the PCC placed emphasis that there are still many committed officers in the Force and that work was in place to change the culture of the force.

     

    ·         Following this, the Chairman informed the Panel that she has written a letter to Surrey MPs regarding the issue of recruitment and retention at Surrey Police including expenses, pay and the cost of living.

     

    RECOMMENDATIONS:

     

    None.

     

    ACTIONS/FURTHER INFORMATION TO BE PROVIDED:

     

                None.

     

    PANEL NEXT STEPS:

     

                None.

     

34/15

DATE OF NEXT MEETING

35/15

EXCLUSION OF THE PUBLIC

36/15

FEEDBACK ON MANAGEMENT MEETINGS BETWEEN THE POLICE AND CRIME COMMISSIONER AND CHIEF CONSTABLE

37/15

VERBAL UPDATE ON ONGOING INVESTIGATIONS

38/15

PUBLICITY OF PART 2 ITEMS