Agenda and minutes
PDF 213 KBVenue: Woodhatch Place, 11 Cockshot Hill, Reigate, RH2 8EF
Contact: Julie Armstrong, Scrutiny Officer
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APOLOGIES FOR ABSENCE AND SUBSTITUTIONS
To report any apologies for absence and substitutions. Additional documents: Minutes: Apologies for absence were received from Councillor Bernie Muir, Councillor Fiona White, Mrs Julie Oldroyd and Mr Alex Tear.
Councillor Will Forster was in attendance as a substitute.
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MINUTES OF THE PREVIOUS MEETING: 12 SEPTEMBER 2024
To agree the minutes of the previous meeting of the Children, Families, Lifelong Learning and Culture as a true and accurate record of proceedings. Additional documents: Minutes: The Committee AGREED the minutes from the previous meeting were a true and accurate record of the meeting.
The Chair informed that following a general discussion on youth services in the April meeting and comments made about the efficacy of building use, she had been contacted by a provider, Surrey Clubs for Young People. They felt the discussion had, by implication, suggested that their service delivery was compromised, and their reputation had been impugned, and they wished it to be put on record that they considered this to be inaccurate. |
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DECLARATIONS OF INTEREST
All Members present are required to declare, at this point in the meeting or as soon as possible thereafter:
1. Any disclosable pecuniary interests; or 2. Other interests arising under the Code of Conduct in respect of any item(s) of business being considered at this meeting.
NOTES:
· Members are reminded that they must not participate in any item where they have a disclosable pecuniary interest. · As well as an interest of the Member, this includes any interest, of which the Member is aware, that relates to the Member’s spouse or civil partner (or any person with whom the Member is living as a spouse or civil partner). · Members with a significant personal interest may participate in the discussion and vote on that matter unless that interest could be reasonably regarded as prejudicial. Additional documents: Minutes: None received.
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QUESTIONS AND PETITIONS
To
receive any questions or petitions. The public retain their right to submit questions for a written response, with such answers recorded in the minutes of the meeting; questioners may participate in meetings to ask a supplementary question.
Petitioners may address the Committee on their petition for up to three minutes. Guidance will be made available to any member of the public wishing to speak at a meeting.
NOTES:
a. The deadline for Member’s questions is 12.00pm four working days before the meeting (8 November 2024). b. The deadline for public questions is seven days before the meeting (7 October 2024). c. The deadline for petitions was 14 days before the meeting, and no petitions have been received. Additional documents: Minutes: There were two questions received from members of the public and two received from Members of the Committee, in writing, prior to the Committee meeting. The questions and answers were provided in the first supplementary agenda circulated prior to the meeting.
a. PUBLIC QUESTIONS
Both individuals who submitted questions had supplemental questions.
1. The first supplementary question came from Sarah Moran, who asked what changes were made to the EHCP panel meetings and decision-making, given that pre-action letters indicated significant weaknesses. A written reply would be provided.
2. A second supplementary question, from Amanda Lazenby, questioned if EHCPs issued were fit for purpose, and whether quality had been compromised by the recovery plan, given the rise in appeals since last year and the success rate of these appeals. The Assistant Director – Inclusion & Additional Needs clarified the difference between quality concerns – such as missing information or misunderstandings, addressed through direct complaints and potential revisions – and tribunal cases which in contrast involved decisions relating to assessments or provisions that parents dispute. Quality issues were resolved via complaints, while tribunals addressed disputes over decisions.
b. MEMBER QUESTIONS
Both Members who submitted questions had supplementary questions.
1. Cllr Essex asked for a more detailed written response to his Member question, addressing each of the six areas he had originally submitted. A written response would be provided by the Assistant Director of Inclusion and Additional Needs.
2. Cllr Townsend asked about discrepancies in the quality grading of EHCPs, specifically why fewer were rated as good or outstanding, and about the assessment tool used for EHCPs. It was clarified that earlier reports excluded plans if any section was not rated "good" or "outstanding," while current reports evaluate individual sections, which has shown improvement. It was explained that Envision is used to evaluate EHCPs based on specific criteria, with 56% of sections rated good or outstanding, and 82% rated satisfactory or higher. Envision is used by over 60 local authorities, allowing for benchmarking. There is no national quality measure beyond whether they meet statutory requirements.
3. The Member asked about the increase in refusals to assess from 2022-2023 to 2023-2024 and the link between refusals and cases going to mediation. The Assistant Director of Inclusion and Additional Needs explained there was a surge in requests, and a lack of understanding of new guidance led to many not meeting legal thresholds, with difficulties in gathering information from parents and schools. The SEND County Service Planning and Performance Leader described the mediation process, noting that some cases are resolved before tribunal. |
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RECOMMENDATIONS TRACKER AND FORWARD WORK PROGRAMME
To review the actions and recommendations tracker and forward work programme, making suggestions for additions or amendments as appropriate. Additional documents: Minutes: The Committee NOTED the actions and recommendations tracker and forward work programme.
Will Forster joined the meeting at 10.37 am. |
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CABINET RESPONSE TO SELECT COMMITTEE RECOMMENDATIONS
To note the Cabinet response to the Committee's Home to School Travel Assistance recommendations and follow up the Cabinet response to the Committee's Additional Needs and Disabilities: Parent and Carer Experience Task Group recommendations. Additional documents: Minutes: Witnesses
· Clare Curran, Cabinet Member for Children, Families and Lifelong Learning · Rachael Wardell, Executive Director for Children, Families and Lifelong Learning · Julia Katherine, Director for Education and Lifelong Learning · Tracey Sanders, Assistant Director for Inclusion and Additional Needs – SEN Recovery and Educational Psychology · Liz Bone, Send County Service Planning & Performance Leader - SEN Recovery
Key points made in the discussion
1. The Chair informed the Committee that an academic who specialises in SEND had been in touch to say the task group’s findings were entirely in line with the experiences of the case officers with whom she has conducted research, and thanked the group for ensuring the case officer voice was heard.
2. Asked when the business case for increasing staff to 135 permanent establishment FTEs would be presented to Cabinet, the Cabinet Member for Children, Families and Lifelong Learning (CFLL) said the upcoming budget would be very tight and the scope to increase the staffing budget may be compromised. She mentioned the need to wait for the local government settlement in December to finalise plans, but a need for more staff would be addressed once processes were simplified and made more effective. If posts were built into the permanent establishment, this would be considered as part of the ordinary budget round rather than a separate business case. The Cabinet Member noted the £15 million secured for the recovery plan, of which half remained, which would enable the additional temporary staff to continue to be funded until March 2026 if needed. The Assistant Director of Inclusion and Additional Needs added that agency staff in the recovery team were a stable team provided externally and managed by a single manager, unlike other agency staff in the quadrants with higher turnover. The Executive Director confirmed future staffing needs, once recovery plan funding comes to an end, would be built into ordinary budget rounds. Need may be reduced by implementing the end-to-end review work. Asked for clarification on whether funding would be sought in the current budget round, the Cabinet Member responded that services for children with additional needs was her greatest directorate priority, however funding from the government’s high needs block – the primary source of funding – was limited.
3. A Member asked how realistic the list of tasks outlined by the end-to-end review was, and when the public would start to see change. The Assistant Director said a number of changes had already been implemented since the review began in 2023, which had improved timeliness and quality. She recognised there continued to be concerns about decisions and provision received. She explained that some of the plans for further progress relied on changing the current structure of four separate quadrant teams. A unified leadership structure, expected to be in place in March 2025, was needed to drive forward change consistently.
4. A Member questioned whether Artificial Intelligence (AI) could cope with the complexity of each unique case and whether the team was engaging with colleagues in other local authorities to ... view the full minutes text for item 48/24 |
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PREPARING FOR ADULTHOOD
To explore the support given by CFLL to children with existing care and/or disabilities/SEND as they approach adulthood, and how they help prepare them for the transition to being supported by Adults, Wellbeing & Health Partnerships. Additional documents: Minutes: Witnesses
· Clare Curran, Cabinet Member for Children, Families and Lifelong Learning · Rachael Wardell, Executive Director for Children, Families and Lifelong Learning · Suzanne Smith, Director for CFL Commissioning for Transformation · Matt Ansell, Director for Safeguarding and Family Resilience · Julia Katherine, Director for Education and Lifelong Learning · Jenny Brickell, Assistant Director for Children with Disabilities · Tracey Sanders, Assistant Director for Inclusion and Additional Needs – SEN Recovery and Educational Psychology · Siobhan Walsh, Assistant Director for Looked After Children and Care Leavers · Jodi Emery, Service Manager for Commissioning - SEND Schools & Preparing for Adulthood
Key points made in the discussion
1. A Member asked what specific actions the service would take to address the concerns raised in an internal audit report on transitions to AWHP. The Assistant Director for Children with Disabilities said the audit highlighted strengths in early engagement pilot programmes but identified issues with late referrals to adult social care, typically starting at age 17.5 due to limited team capacity. The main goal was to enable earlier transitions by building a workforce skilled in both children's and adults’ legislation for consistent and effective support.
2. A Member asked whether the issue with service provision had been within children’s services, adult services, or both, and where the primary responsibility for addressing these challenges had lain. The Assistant Director said that children's services were responsible for social care planning for ages 0 to 18. Efforts had been underway to create a pathway that facilitated smoother transitions to adult services. Leadership in both children’s and adult services had been aligned with the need for this improvement.
3. A Member asked what was preventing the service from beginning transition planning at age 14, as recommended by national good practice. They also inquired about the current percentage of referrals to the transition team initiated by age 14 and what steps were being taken to increase early referrals. The Assistant Director said children's services started preparing young people for adulthood at age 16, focusing on needs like mental capacity and independence. Referrals to adult services usually begin at 16, as children’s services work on fostering independence. Formal transitions to adult services occur later, due to limited engagement at age 14, but planning and needs review continued to ensure readiness for adulthood.
4. The Chair asked why the positive outcomes from the Working Younger project had not materialised as expected. The Assistant Director responded that the pilot had faced significant workforce issues at the time, which had since improved. Although lessons from the project had been embedded, adult services had lacked the capacity to fully engage with younger children with disabilities.
5. A Member asked what had been done to integrate the case management systems of children’s and adult services for effective data sharing and access to relevant information, as it is known that workers in both services had read-only access to each other’s databases. The Assistant Director said that the next step is integrating referrals into adult social care and exploring potential joint databases, though this is ... view the full minutes text for item 49/24 |
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To receive Ofsted reports on Surrey County Council-run Children’s Homes. Additional documents: Minutes: Witnesses
· Clare Curran, Cabinet Member for Children, Families and Lifelong Learning · Rachael Wardell, Executive Director for Children, Families and Lifelong Learning
Key points made in the discussion
1. The Chair thanked the staff and managers for their efforts, highlighting the positive reports that emphasised the focus on the child, strong working relationships, and effective leadership. |
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PERFORMANCE OVERVIEW
To receive an overview of Children, Families and Lifelong Learning performance to help inform future Committee business. Additional documents: Minutes: Witnesses
· Clare Curran, Cabinet Member for Children, Families and Lifelong Learning · Rachael Wardell, Executive Director for Children, Families and Lifelong Learning · Tom Stevenson, Assistant Director for Quality Practice
Key points made in the discussion
1. The Chair noted the sufficiency of looked after children placements over 20 miles from Surrey had remained stagnant over the last three-and-a-half years. Additionally, waiting times for ND pathway appointments had increased to 288 days. |
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DATE OF THE NEXT MEETING
To note the next public meeting of the Committee will be held on Tuesday, 3 December 2024. Additional documents: Minutes: The Committee NOTED its next meeting would be held on 3 December 2024.
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