Councillors and committees

Agenda and minutes

Venue: Woodhatch Place, Reigate, Surrey

Contact: Julie Armstrong, Scrutiny Officer 

Media

Items
No. Item

7/23

APOLOGIES FOR ABSENCE

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    The Chairman to report apologies for absence.

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Apologies were received from Cllr Mick Gillman and Cllr Keith Witham.

    Cllr John Furey attended remotely, so was unable to vote.

     

8/23

MINUTES OF THE PREVIOUS MEETINGS: 21 NOVEMBER 2022 AND 17 JANUARY 2023 pdf icon PDF 348 KB

9/23

DECLARATIONS OF INTEREST

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    All Members present are required to declare, at this point in the meeting or as soon as possible thereafter

    (i)            Any disclosable pecuniary interests and / or

    (ii)           Other interests arising under the Code of Conduct in respect of any item(s) of business being considered at this meeting

    NOTES:

    ·         Members are reminded that they must not participate in any item where they have a disclosable pecuniary interest

    ·         As well as an interest of the Member, this includes any interest, of which the Member is aware, that relates to the Member’s spouse or civil partner (or any person with whom the Member is living as a spouse or civil partner)

    ·         Members with a significant personal interest may participate in the discussion and vote on that matter unless that interest could be reasonably regarded as prejudicial.

     

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    None received.

     

10/23

PUBLIC QUESTIONS

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    The deadline for public questions is seven days before the meeting (27 January 2023).

     

    Note:

    A written response will be circulated to Panel Members and the questioner.

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    None received.

     

11/23

CHAIRMAN'S COMMENTS

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    For the Chairman to provide any updates and comments to the Panel.

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Witness:

    Councillor John Robini, Chairman of the Surrey Police and Crime Panel

    1. The Chairman thanked the Force and the Office of the Police and Crime Commissioner (OPCC) for their efforts in producing the 2023/24 budget. The Chairman recognised the challenging circumstances, as residents were struggling with their personal finances and the Force was struggling to maintain their operational services with the budgetary pressures they were facing.

     

    1. The Chairman informed the Panel that he planned to write a letter to the Government, urging them to review their formula used for police funding. The Panel supported this.

     

12/23

VANGUARD ROAD SAFETY TEAM BRIEFING pdf icon PDF 4 MB

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    To provide a briefing on the work of the new road safety team launched in 2022, with the aim of reducing the number of fatal five offences.

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Key points raised in the discussion:

    1. It was agreed that a briefing on the work of the team could be provided at a later date, once the team was more established.

     

    Actions/requests for further information:

    1. R1/23 – The Panel’s support officer to organise a briefing for the Panel on the work of the Vanguard Road Safety team.

     

     

    RESOLVED:

    The Panel noted the report.

     

13/23

SURREY POLICE GROUP (OPCC & CHIEF CONSTABLE COMBINED) FINANCIAL REPORT FOR MONTH EIGHT OF FINANCIAL YEAR 2022/23 pdf icon PDF 354 KB

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    The purpose of this report is to inform the Police & Crime Panel of the Surrey Police Group (i.e. OPCC and Chief Constable combined) financial position at the end of November 2022 as well as a prediction for the situation at the end of March 2023.

     

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Witness:

    Kelvin Menon, Chief Finance Officer (OPCC)

    Key points raised in the discussion:

    1. The Chief Finance Officer (CFO) explained that there was a forecasted underspend of £2.5 million largely due to staffing, as there were a substantial number of vacancies. The capital budget was also predicted to be underspent due to phasing of projects and the decision to redevelop Mount Browne, rather than move the headquarters. The requirements of Mount Browne were being reassessed.

     

    1. A Panel Member noted that the Force needed to recruit 250 officers in 2023/24 and queried the reasons that officers were leaving. The CFO clarified that there was no uplift requirement in 2023/24, however, Forces had to maintain officer numbers which included historic figures and the uplift number. Therefore, 250 officers was the estimate when taking into account natural turnover. The CFO explained that there was no main reason that officers were leaving, however, he noted that they were able to retire after 30 years of service and often they would move to more affordable parts of the country with cheaper housing.

     

    1. A Member asked whether the CFO was confident in the plans to tackle the high vacancy rate. The CFO explained that it was difficult to compete with private sector salaries, however, allowances had been reviewed for a number of posts and shift allowances had also been revised. Recruitment was a long process due to the amount of time that vetting took. The Member asked whether there was a quicker route for vetting. The CFO explained that it already took place internally, but it was a proper and thorough process. There had been national recommendations for vetting, following recent cases with officers in the Metropolitan Police.

     

    1. A Member asked how the reserves were expected to operate over the current (2022/23) and next (2023/24) financial year. The CFO explained that all of the reserves were under the control of the Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC). Transfers to reserves were not made until the end of the financial year, the transfer in 2022/23 was expected be circa £150,000. The same transfer was expected in 2023/24 but was again not made until the end of the financial year. The Member queried the extent to which manufacturing delays impacted the outturn for the current financial year. The CFO was not aware of a significant underspend on vehicles, he explained that he was aware of long lead times due to the non-availability of computer chips. There was a national tender process at the moment for a new contract for vehicles, there had also been additional demand for vehicles due to uplift.

     

    RESOLVED:

    The Panel noted the report.

     

14/23

2023/24 BUDGET AND PROPOSED PRECEPT pdf icon PDF 2 MB

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    The Police and Crime Panel is required to consider and formally respond to the Police and Crime Commissioner’s Proposed Precept for 2023/24. The purpose of this item is to allow the Commissioner to outline her proposals in more detail and answer any questions that Panel Members might have.

    Following consideration of the Commissioner’s proposed precept, the

    Panel must either:

    a) agree the precept without qualification or comment;

    b) support the precept and make comments or recommendations concerning the application of the revenues generated; or

    c) veto the proposed precept.

    Note:

    In accordance with the Police and Crime Panels (Precepts and Chief Constable Appointments) Regulations 2012:

    (a) The Commissioner must notify the Panel of her proposed precept by 1 February 2023;

    (b) The Panel must review and make a report to the Commissioner on the proposed precept (whether it vetoes the precept or not) by 8 February 2023;

    (c) If the Panel vetoes the precept, the Commissioner must have regard to and respond to the Panel’s report, and publish her response, including the revised precept, by 15 February 2023;

    (d) The Panel, on receipt of a response from the Commissioner notifying it of her revised precept, must review the revised precept and make a second report to the Commissioner by 22 February 2023

    (there is no second right of veto);

    (e) The Commissioner must have regard to and respond to the Panel’s second report and publish her response by 1 March 2023.

     

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Witnesses:

    Lisa Townsend, Surrey Police and Crime Commissioner

    Kelvin Menon, Chief Finance Officer (OPCC)

    Key points raised in the discussion:

    1. The PCC introduced the item, emphasising the rising costs that the Force was facing, such as the vehicle fuel bill increasing by over £500,000 in the last year. Government grant funding for policing nationally only rose by 1.8% and therefore, PCCs made representation to indicate the shortfall of £0.5 billion for policing. The response from government was to increase the Precept cap to £15, rather than to increase government funding. The Force had a good record of delivering savings, however, it became harder to deliver more savings over time. Police staff could suffer from any potential cuts, and this would have a substantial impact, as they formed the backbone of the services provided. The consultation results showed that 57% of respondents were in favour of an increase of £15. The PCC explained that she had little choice but to propose an increase of the Precept to £15, which was equivalent to 5% and well below the current rate of inflation.

     

    1. A Panel Member noted that last year the Panel unanimously supported the £10 increase of the Precept and the staff vacancy rate increased despite this. The Panel Member asked whether this year’s increase would be spent on frontline policing or whether there would be another underspend due to staffing issues. The CFO explained that the high vacancy rate was a temporary situation due to the economy and labour market. There would not be an ongoing underspend, as the posts needed to be filled. If the Precept was not increased to £15, the money would be lost forever, and the posts would never manage to be filled. Officer pay would also increase by at least 2% and the Precept funding would help to address future financial issues. The Panel Member asked whether this was the right time to increase the Precept or whether there should be greater lobbying for increased government funding. The CFO explained that it would be good if government funding increased in line with inflation or the funding formula was revised so that Surrey residents got a better deal, but in the meantime, the Precept funding was required to maintain services.

     

    1. A Panel Member asked whether there were any more efficiencies that could realistically be made. The CFO explained that the medium-term financial strategy (MTFS) predicted the savings that had to be made to reach a balanced budget, rather than savings that could be made. It would be a challenge to meet the target and there would be a number of reviews to support the process. The last resort would service reductions in some areas.

     

    1. In response to questions on the staff vacancy rate, the CFO explained that in 2023/24 the vacancy margin had been increased as a tool used to balance the budget. Ideally, this would be reduced going forward as posts were filled. The plans to address this were at an early stage and the CFO  ...  view the full minutes text for item 14/23

15/23

PERFORMANCE MEETINGS pdf icon PDF 137 KB

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    This report provides an update on the performance meetings between the PCC and the Chief Constable that have been held and what has been discussed in order to demonstrate that arrangements for good governance and scrutiny are in place.

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Witnesses:

    Lisa Townsend, Surrey Police and Crime Commissioner

    Nathan Rees, Head of Communication and Engagement (OPCC)

    Key points raised in the discussion:

    1. A Panel Member noted that the consultation on the budget and Precept included a question on residents’ priorities for policing and asked whether the PCC thought the responses supported the current priorities of her Police and Crime Plan. The Head of Communication and Engagement explained that the top three priorities in the responses of the consultation were burglary, neighbourhood crime, and anti-social behaviour. 25% of the responses included violence against women and girls. A report would be produced based on the consultation responses which could be shared with the Panel. The PCC added that the consultation was a small element of the input she received about the Plan and would not make any changes to it based on those responses alone.

     

    1. A Panel Member asked whether the PCC had any concerns about complaints handling within the Force and the number of complaints received, based off a recent news article on the topic. The Head of Communication and Engagement clarified that there were inaccuracies in how the data was presented in the article. It included the number of overall complaints received; it was not the number of misconduct cases. If a complaint included multiple elements, these would be recorded as separate complaints. The Force released a robust response and explanation to the article as well.

     

    RESOLVED:

    The Panel noted the report.

     

     

16/23

PCC FORWARD PLAN AND KEY DECISIONS pdf icon PDF 395 KB

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    This report provides information on the key decisions taken by the PCC from November 2022 to present and sets out details of the Office’s ongoing Forward Plan for 2023.

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Witnesses:

    Lisa Townsend, Surrey Police and Crime Commissioner

    Alison Bolton, Chief Executive (OPCC)

     

    Key points raised in the discussion:

    1. A Panel Member queried what the item called ‘update allowance scheme’ was about. The Chief Executive explained that it was a review conducted on an annual basis which looked at the allowance scheme that covered staff associated with the OPCC and sets out what allowances they could access and claim.

     

    RESOLVED:

    The Panel noted the report.

     

17/23

COMMISSIONER'S QUESTION TIME pdf icon PDF 257 KB

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    For the Panel to raise any issues or queries concerning crime and policing in Surrey with the Commissioner.

     

    Note:

    The deadline for Member’s questions is 12.00pm four working days before the meeting (30 January 2023).

     

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Witness:

    Lisa Townsend, Surrey Police and Crime Commissioner

     

    Key points raised in the discussion:

    1. A Panel Member queried why the Commissioner thought it was an appropriate time to commission a review of whether to use her statutory power to take over responsibility for Surrey Fire and Rescue Service. The PCC explained that she had been involved in ongoing conversations with Ministers and the Home Office about their views and this was the right time. The Council was aware of this, and the PCC clarified that it was about governance, rather than operational collaboration.

     

    1. A Panel Member asked whether the PCC had her own view on the best governance arrangements. The PCC explained that currently it was up to each individual PCC, however, the Government may decide to mandate it, and this was one of the reasons why the PCC wanted to conduct the review now. The PCC felt that the current governance arrangements were not as good as they could be.

     

    1. A Panel Member queried whether this would result in a Precept for each service. The PCC explained that this was likely, and the Panel would become joint as well.

     

18/23

COMPLAINTS RECEIVED SINCE THE LAST MEETING pdf icon PDF 119 KB

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    To note complaints against the Police and Crime Commissioner and the Deputy Police and Crime Commissioner received since the last meeting of the Police and Crime Panel.

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Key points raised in the discussion:

    1. None.

     

    RESOLVED:

    The Panel noted the report.

     

19/23

RECOMMENDATIONS TRACKER AND FORWARD WORK PROGRAMME pdf icon PDF 114 KB

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    To review the Recommendations Tracker and Forward Work Programme.

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    Witnesses:

    Lisa Townsend, Surrey Police and Crime Commissioner

    Alison Bolton, Chief Executive (OPCC)

    Kelvin Menon, Chief Finance Officer (OPCC)

     

    Key points raised in the discussion:

    1. A Panel Member requested a paper on staff vacancy rates and their distribution across the Force. The Chief Finance Officer agreed that a paper on this could come to the next Panel meeting.

     

    1. A Panel Member requested for the funding formula for CCTV to be reshared as per R25/22 on the tracker. The Chief Executive responded that it would be shared soon, and it could be combined with responding to a question about the budget for CCTV at the Finance Sub-Group.

     

    1. A Panel Member requested an item on unauthorised encampments. The PCC confirmed that the Panel would receive a presentation on that.

     

20/23

DATE OF NEXT MEETING

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    The next public meeting of the Police and Crime Panel will be held on XXX.

    Additional documents:

    Minutes:

    The Panel noted that its next meeting would be held on Tuesday, 18 April 2023.